Paul raised this issue based on an earlier conversation. How do we know that the spiritual quest itself is not an ego trip?
Michael C: Are we helping other people to help them or to appear in a good light?
Christian: It is said that Mother Theresa who has been declared one of the most notable spiritual people of the 20th century said on her deathbed that she regretted her life. Same with the Christian church that declares that we should love our neighbor as ourselves yet caused countless wars over the centuries.
Tony: He is running a 90-day program on a spiritual self improvement program, “tighten up your practice”. He is on day 57 now.
Michael C: He writes notes and reflections on his daily daily. Sure, he realizes that he wants them to be noticed.
Julie: She has been on a spiritual path since childhood. She could have gone to India to learn more about it but decided to be a nurse and mother instead. She grew up a Catholic but now faces so many different paths. Recently she came across the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita as well. How does one navigate through all the different paths, and is it ego if we move from one to the next?
Michael C: all these different paths are tools. Pick the one that is helpful.
Christian: when I stopped working in the corporate world I wanted to pursue spirituality on a full-term basis, initially I wondered whether to become a coach for corporations to advocate spirituality. But then, when I came across the writings of J. Krishnamurti and Ramana Maharshi I was way more interested in the quest for enlightenment. But then, was it spiritual ego that catapulted me instead? Did I subconsciously wanted to be somebody by becoming a nobody?
Tony: I would pick the personal journey any day over teaching corporations. They are not interested in anything other that profits and power.
Anna said she works in a car shop and wants to echo Tony’s sentiment. No one there wants to hear about spirituality. Her boss is Catholic, but he doesn’t either.
Michael: there are too many words, too many concepts. He reads introductions of books. That’s where the insights get communicated.
Corinne: she is an introvert. She doesn’t want to be noticed.
Paul: Corinne’s poetry introduced him to spirituality.
Tony: we are obviously not better than others.
Christian: when I started out on the spiritual quest, I thought Awakening was one of the few. Today I feel in my heart, we are all in the same boat. Yet are the enlightened better?
Julie: just send your love to people no matter what the circumstances.
Paul: whatever path I am on is ok. Whatever path someone else is on is ok too.
Syed: Spiritual ego is what I think. We have thoughts, like being superior to others, hidden in deep unconscious layers, such as, I will be a master, leader, writer. These thoughts give us pleasure, and we invite more of these pleasurable thoughts. They trap us in every possible way.
Michael: it is more fun when people are into spirituality. He invests in people he cares for.
Someone added that it is ego if you feel you need to raise others.
Michael: Forget the corporations, the culture is immoral. Take the military and how it is revered in the US.
Anna: has been working on the food industry for a bit. The corruption there is awful.
Christian: are we really so different? Sure, on a scale from evil to good, military is worst, followed by industries like Wall-Street, and even Healthcare. Even in sports there is so much violence, but it is clearer there that it is just a game. I spend time in the financial industry and time here in the spiritual community and come to the conclusion, people are people wherever you look.
Paul: I joked with Christian, I am proud how humble I am.
Tony: when I was in the show business, I joked how humble I was for someone that famous.
Tony: what about conditioning? Is there good and bad ego?
It takes a little Bravado to get out in front of people. People need to promote their books, their message.
Paul mentioned that he is working on a book with a friend. Sometimes the doubts creep in, “do I really have something worthwhile to say?”
Christian: maybe these doubts are conditioning, say from the childhood, in this case, you would have to stand up to them to get your message out.
Julie: ego is like a child, hug it.
Michael: everyone has ego, even Ramana Maharshi did. I discovered that when I read his books. Ego is in our neural wiring; we cannot complete step out of it.
Christian: Suzuki concluded that we just need enough ego not to step in front of an incoming bus. Tony, can we really self-improve? How is your spiritual practice program going?
Tony: It’s a method for checking yourself.
Julie: accountability is important.
Christian: it’s ok to say something and then do the opposite. It’s just not ok to do it twice. Then we become a hypocrite. A simple way of solving the dilemma is just stop saying what you yourself can’t do.
Tony: if we always did what we know is good for us we could live 200 years, but for some reason or another, no one can.
Paul: it’s all about accountability. He works on his book with a partner and they both want to give each other honest feedback, but it is hard.
Christian: Americans are conditioned to give only positive feedback. I grew up in Europe where they are more forthcoming. In the UK, for example, they say “not bad” when they say, quite good. I saw a movie “you hurt my feelings” in which a novelist who was encouraged by her husband to get her book published, but behind her back she heard him say that he didn’t care much for it. Later in the movie it became apparent that everyone was lying to everyone else in the desire to not hurt their feelings.
Anna: the automotive business is the exception. If there is a problem with the car, you suck.
Michael C. admitted that his feedback was having unrealistic optimistic expectations about relationships.
Tony: do not expect
Thanks for a great discussion everyone. We meet bi-weekly. Let me know if you like to join.
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